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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
47
   |
Posted - 2014.10.30 15:29:21 -
[1] - Quote
Hhhrrrrrmmmmm........... |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 16:35:27 -
[2] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:I try to see both sides of an argument, honest I do.
That this 'buffs hisec' and makes the game safer? Yeah I see that.
Thing is it does so by removing a stupid loophole. Can one of the opposition explain to me WHY it makes sense that I can shoot a guy in my corp but not a stranger? Why concord will react to one incident and not the other?
With dual mechanics we now have ways to 'test a tank' ignoring completely sisi server for the moment. So why did the awox mechanic make sense to you? I understand it made Eve 'dangerous' and allowed a certain type of gameplay but at the bottom of it . . . is there a logic to that rule?
m
In my first half year of playing me and my corpmate used to surprise shoot at each other for lols and to be reminded to always keep the guards up. Losses always were paid by the winner. This was fun, because it could happen anytime out of nowhere.
If CCP really believes this will help player retention, then this game is doomed.
Tell me, you CSM person, what are they doing against the real reasons that make new players quit?
.) Player run New player corps which do not provide gameplay for their new players, or completely one sided gameplay.
.) Vets in rookie corps who make people mine or run missions, which equals to playing solo or not at all, although CCP themselves said that players who become social are more likely to stay.
.) Vets in rookie corps who lie about lowsec and the attitude of PvPers in general.
.) Player run New player corps who do not teach anything and force their members to become targets,
instead of making them understand how to survive and defend themselves.
I will wait for your response. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 18:38:19 -
[3] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Sol Project wrote:
If CCP really believes this will help player retention, then this game is doomed.
Tell me, you CSM person, what are they doing against the real reasons that make new players quit?
.) Player run New player corps which do not provide gameplay for their new players, or completely one sided gameplay.
.) Vets in rookie corps who make people mine or run missions, which equals to playing solo or not at all, although CCP themselves said that players who become social are more likely to stay.
.) Vets in rookie corps who lie about lowsec and the attitude of PvPers in general.
.) Player run New player corps who do not teach anything and force their members to become targets,
instead of making them understand how to survive and defend themselves.
I will wait for your response.
Out of curiosity, what makes you think that the above are the real reasons new players quit? Have you stats? Exit polls? You know, the things CCP does to see why people leave? But bullet by bullet 'do not provide gameplay' yeah, I agree some folks who came looking for a themepark experience leave when they find this is not it. I do not propose we ever try to become one, either. Sometimes you are just not the right game for the player. Force players to mine or run missions. um, how? Oh they may suggest it for standings or to get some isk while the skill queue ripens but are you talking slave labour? What are they, Amarr? People lie in Eve . . . yup Some corps are bad and don't teach. Yup, others are better at it. I'd like to see an encouragement to the latter class of corps. m If you do not believe my words, I will carefully take your hand, will try not to break it, and show you actual reality. You can ask awoxxers themselves about the huge amount of corps who gather new players and do not care for them or teach them anything of actual value.
You can also by yourself spend lots of time in ALL the rookiecorps to find out that there are assholes who do exactly what I am telling you. Tippia can also confirm this to be true and points it out often enough.
I take my information simply by playing and talking in the relevant areas, with the people it's about. Something CCP does not seem to do and I doubt you do it either. You people look at "data", thinking it mirrors reality. The more you look at data, the less connected with actual reality you will be.
If you think you know better, then please show us relevant data that proves that the issue that absolutely exists is not actually there. I bet that your data does not consider social interactions and the influence of the few on the many.
You are welcome to tell me otherwise and show me something that proves that you or CCP actually know why people are leaving this game. So far, it seems that you all suffer from a big questionmark.
Do you have any ideas why people do not stay for longer or do you just have data? |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 18:41:15 -
[4] - Quote
Also I like to add that your attitude stinks. I am trying to help and you come up with a crappy response.
Try to be better. It's about the game and you seem to not understand what's going on at all.
Try it. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
52
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Posted - 2014.10.30 18:49:10 -
[5] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Furthermore, CCP should not be concerned with the kind of people who "level their Raven and then quit", because they'd be quitting anyway. This game will never attract AND keep such people, they treat it like it's a Facebook game.
Yes, but what if they didn't? Retaining even a small portion of the "upgrade your raven types" (~40% of new players as per CCP Rise at FF) could, over a modest time frame,significantly increase the quantity of targets in our sand box. Providing for these worthless souls, whether it be in the form of dojos/arenas, improved missions, reducing awoxing, etc. has the opportunity to vastly enrich the sandbox and is therefore a worthwhile pursuit.
No. It does not enrich the sandbox. I doubt you ever enriched the sandbox so I understand if you use these words in such an empty manner.
The reason why these people leave is because there is a cap to their satisfaction. Eventually, there will be no reason to keep going, because the fake feelings of achievement by shooting stupid NPCs have maxed out and they go find a new game that gives them these fake feelings of achievements.
These people do not enrich the sandbox. At best, they are loudmouthing targets. "Enriching the sandbox" means to provide content. Sand. These people you mention do not provide sand at all. They are ants who are being kicked out, because the sandbox is not where they belong. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
52
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 18:54:44 -
[6] - Quote
And I like to add that CCPs data most likely does not actually tell them anything of value. Instead of looking at worthless bits and exitpolls, all they would need to do is have actually skilled people play and talk to those it is actually about. Proper social engineering is what is needed.
CCPs data has less use than toilet paper. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
57
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 10:51:13 -
[7] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:We can't shoot corpmate in highsec-space anymore without being fleeted, and nothing was lost.
What do fleets have to do with this now?
And hey, Kaa, nice upgrade to DWA. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
59
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:38:06 -
[8] - Quote
How in hell is CODE pro-botting now?? |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
59
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 12:49:21 -
[9] - Quote
What Jenn is saying in that little box, is that idiots will always stick to what they believe is right and will ignore everything that shows that they are wrong, because being wrong hurts their vulnerable little egos and they can't deal with that.
Thinking is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
60
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 13:15:46 -
[10] - Quote
What's wrong about not wanting their playstyle to be removed for reasons that are bullshit to begin with?
Read what people write. They assume new players don't join corps because of awoxxing.
Think: How would they know? Do you seriously believe the majority of people knows that before they join the game?
How about the more realistic approach, which combines with what is going on already?
.) Lowsec is a death trap.
.) All PvPers are griefers.
.) Mining and mission running is a good start into the game.
Where do the people come from who just level up their ravens? Do they join this game because they knew upfront that it's what they want, or are they being told to do that and then stick with it?
The whole issue is a social engineering one, not a game mechanics one. |
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
64
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 13:53:43 -
[11] - Quote
Good Posting Reloaded wrote:High sec should be safer for new players, and since many old players are too scared of leaving the kiddie pool and they continue ******* with newbies, ccp is hitting their butt with a stick because they have been very very bad boys. Now the supposed bad boys are whining like the true pussies thay always have been.
Post with your main, so we can kick his ass. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
64
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 13:59:27 -
[12] - Quote
OMG the mission forum...
I'll have a good and long peak at that one........... |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
65
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 14:07:48 -
[13] - Quote
Doublepost. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
65
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 14:08:53 -
[14] - Quote
Good Posting Reloaded wrote:Sol Project wrote:Good Posting Reloaded wrote:High sec should be safer for new players, and since many old players are too scared of leaving the kiddie pool and they continue ******* with newbies, ccp is hitting their butt with a stick because they have been very very bad boys. Now the supposed bad boys are whining like the true pussies thay always have been.
Post with your main, so we can kick his ass. I post with the account i please, and by the way, you never left high sec so i doubt you would come to hunt me where i am. Stay in high sec like the true shitlord you are, mr big mouth.
Calling others wannabe tough guys, while running such a big mouth and hiding behind an alt.
And you probably realise the irony, but as you hide you can post hatefull crap all you want. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
65
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 14:25:30 -
[15] - Quote
Mr. Epeen... since when does the Project hide in anonymity?
That's what forum alts are there for, no?
Like... yours, no?
Or are all your chars called Epeen? Yes?
And the goodposting coward keeps running his big mouth, while hiding behind an alt.
Post with your main, I dare you.
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
66
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 14:36:38 -
[16] - Quote
Good Posting Reloaded wrote:Sol Project wrote:Mr. Epeen... since when does the Project hide in anonymity?
That's what forum alts are there for, no?
Like... yours, no?
Or are all your chars called Epeen? Yes?
And the goodposting coward keeps running his big mouth, while hiding behind an alt.
Post with your main, I dare you.
Man i'm going to tell you a secret. One time i went to pew pew you, yes, i went to Hek. And do you know what happened? Nothing, why? Because you never undocked. You won because you made me waste a few hours (2 days in fact). You are a high sec F- and you know it. Keep getting mad 
I too can make up **** that's not true, but I'm not you.
In any case... it looks more like you're the mad one here....... |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
75
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 14:26:40 -
[17] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:This thread shows clearly that people preying on noobs are quite a large and noisy collective... Posts like yours show that people who do not understand what this is about are quite a large and noisy collective. They also can't see beyond their selective awareness and don't care about anything except their own fake and shallow standards.
I bet you have absolutely NO experience in the whole matter at all and just talk from hearsay. I bet you haven't been into at least five of these "new player friendly" corps who are more harming than anything.
You do not do PvP. I know this from you. Yet, instead of accepting that you lack any actual knowledge or experience about what's going on, you think you can make such a statement that only shows that you have absolutely *no* insight on the matter or what this is actually about.
You just parrot the same crap all the other clueless haters parrot, who do not have any actual insight into what's happening.
YOUR ATTITUDE is one big reason why people love to shoot into your pretty face.
People like you need to be purged from the game. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
75
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 14:35:32 -
[18] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Most corp thieves drop right away. Proof?
Besides, you make no sense.
.) There is no reason to quit, just because the theft is done.
He can as well keep trying to shoot them too
.) There is no need to quit at all, when intra-corp aggression is gone.
That'll happen latest at the next downtime anyway. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
80
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 20:37:25 -
[19] - Quote
The next generation of players will learn that in highsec, there is no non-consensual combat allowed anymore, unless you give consent by deliberately flagging yourself as a FreeForAll.
They will learn that every aggression needs CONCORD to have prior knowledge about it, else they will strike.
The green button being defaulted to green supports the idea of combat in highsec being a thing that is not liked to be seen. More people will come up with the stupidity of living in pvp zones, aka "If you wanna pvp go to low or null", showing ignorance of what pvp means and that there are no zones to being with. Yet, at least.
No new player will be able to just try and find out if it's fun or profitable to shoot the ass of his corpmate for money, unless he can lure him into a duel in something expensive, which adds a huge amount of complexity to it.
Now people will tell me that wardecs and suicide ganking are non-consensual combat and still there ... but I don't actually agree. If there is no consent with CONCORD, then the potential for aggression will always be crippled. It's crippled already even WITH consent.
Consent, not from the player... but from the system. It still looks like a game that has non-consensual combat everywhere... but if asking CONCORD for allowance isn't "asking for consent" then I hope I just have issues with the language barrier.......
I doubt that CCP doesn't realise the differences in perception.
Well played, CCP......... |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
81
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 20:55:08 -
[20] - Quote
They're not changing it.
They did so already.
It just looks like it's not there yet and maybe never will, because as long as people can hook onto a tiny freedom they are willingly ignoring all the limitations...
Ganking gives the illusion that people need to accept there is still non-consensual combat happening in highsec. The tiny freedom that blinds to all the limitations that will be forgotten eventually anyway.
The part about the freedom to engage has moved away from the player to the system. |
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
81
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 20:58:21 -
[21] - Quote
Christus Estnatus Hemanseh wrote:Sol Project wrote:The next generation of players will learn that in highsec, there is no non-consensual combat allowed anymore, unless you give consent by deliberately flagging yourself as a FreeForAll.
They will learn that every aggression needs CONCORD to have prior knowledge about it, else they will strike.
The green button being defaulted to green supports the idea of combat in highsec being a thing that is not liked to be seen. More people will come up with the stupidity of living in pvp zones, aka "If you wanna pvp go to low or null", showing ignorance of what pvp means and that there are no zones to being with. Yet, at least.
No new player will be able to just try and find out if it's fun or profitable to shoot the ass of his corpmate for money, unless he can lure him into a duel in something expensive, which adds a huge amount of complexity to it.
Now people will tell me that wardecs and suicide ganking are non-consensual combat and still there ... but I don't actually agree. If there is no consent with CONCORD, then the potential for aggression will always be crippled. It's crippled already even WITH consent.
Consent, not from the player... but from the system. It still looks like a game that has non-consensual combat everywhere... but if asking CONCORD for allowance isn't "asking for consent" then I hope I just have issues with the language barrier.......
I doubt that CCP doesn't realise the differences in perception.
Well played, CCP......... CONCORD is a part of the risk. Please, do not take any risk not worthy of the reward.
No.
Risk is something you take, when you know that you might not get what you want. There is risk involved in ganking when it comes to loot drops. There is no risk involved in regards to the target. If the aggressors failed then they did it wrong. That's not "I risked my ships and failed", it's "I was too stupid to do it right. What did I miss?".
There is no "Damn I hope CONCORD won't show up". CONCORD definitely WILL show up.
Risks involve a gamble. It's there, but unrelated to CONCORD. CONCORD is an absolute. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
81
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 21:25:35 -
[22] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Well...this thread has almost run its course. You can always tell because the people backed into a corner start with the bizarro outlier examples of why the change is a bad thing. "This one in a million thing happened once to this one person this one time, so we need to keep the mechanic. You just never know when it might happen again and then you'll all be sorry!" Until the next thread, I bid you all adieu. Mr Epeen  That logic doesn't work.
Let's remove everything a minority does, because a bigger minority thinks it's bad?
It's not CCP who came up with this. It's their "data" and "exit polls", but do they really look at the issue from the individual level? Dou tfull. They see data, but can not possibly see the reasons for the actions. Saying that all the awoxxes happened because assholes want to grief noobs is outright ridiculous.
Crappy new player corps are legion. Whoever says that such a bad first influence doesn't drive people out of the game too, is as much ridiculous. Who says that most awoxxes didn't happen for a good reason?
This change is nuts and disconnected from reality. At least they should present why it is deemed as helpfull. Removing the symptom od the illness will not make the illness go away. Instead they more likely will remove wardecs, because of the increase in wardecs against new player corps.
THIS will be their last mistake, though. These corps have potential, but it's those in charge who refuse to use it and rather tell their members to hide or use an alt. That's not EVE at all and catering to these people will cause bigger issues in the meta than CCP can imagine.
I agree though... this thread has run it's course. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
81
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 21:46:09 -
[23] - Quote
How is it non intuitive to be able to shoot someone in a game about shooting someone?
It is non intuitive to have a game about nonconsensual pvp to have all these limitations and beaurocrazy around!
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